THE VEIL MINISTRIES INTERVIEW
The views expressed in the interviews do not
necessarily reflect the views of the Web Site.
Complete freedom has been given for
individuals to express their own thoughts.
ROSEMARY STEADMAN-ALLEN
I work as a forensic social worker in a medium secure forensic psychiatry unit covering the whole of Kent. I am training to be a counselling psychologist. I have 2 amazing children one of whom is married and one about to be this summer, both of whom I am am very proud and privileged to be their mum. I am the youngest daughter of Ray and Joy Steadman-Allen who have provided me with the best upbringing from so many standpoints, and who continue to provide me with ongoing love and support. I play flugel in Chatham Salvation Army Band , and sing soprano with the International Staff Songsters and Chatham songsters. I scrape a cello when I have time which isn't very often, but love to get together with my family to play string trios (Barbara plays violin and Dad viola). Looking forward to having some time when I can relax and do more walking.
How did you meet/find the Lord?
I was taken as a tiny baby to The Salvation Army and was brought up in a home where the love of God was obvious in everything. My parents have a strong faith which relates very much to life as it is lived. At the age of three when a call to the mercy seat was given, I felt a strong compulsion to go forward and believe that this was the Lord calling me to make a personal response even at that early age.
What do you personally get from knowing Jesus?
A sense of being grounded- that there is a purpose to me being here even if sometimes I’m not sure what that is. A knowledge that I am not alone, but am loved by one who knows what is best for me. And a knowledge that my family are also in his love and care even when I am anxious about them.
Favourite quote from the Bible?
There are so many, and some stand out at different times. I love the Psalms because they are written by people who were honestly human and like me! To name a few- Ps 17-8; Joel 2:25; the end of Romans 8; Isaiah 43, and also John 20:16 when Jesus speaks to the grieving Mary and calls her so gently and lovingly by her name. So much in that one word.
Now, two questions asked by a 12 year old!
Favourite colour. Blue
Colour of eyes. Blue
Which individuals or factors have influenced your career path and was this a path you originally set out to follow?
It was by default that I applied to the psychology department in Broadmoor Hospital when I left university when Mum suggested to me that maybe I should now be looking for a job!! That was a definitive moment, as I loved every moment there for many reasons. I became interested in criminology and went off to do a Masters degree in criminology at Cambridge and then was all set with funding etc to do a PhD at Cardiff university looking at police and the UK approach to their use of weapons even more of a topical issue more than 30 years later! It was the 1978 Salvation Army congress and subsequently going on campaign to Portugal that made me decide that my vocation should probably begin sooner rather than later so instead of starting the PhD I returned to Broadmoor to save up to enter The Salvation Army training college. 10 years later, personal circumstances meant the end of my officership and I have eventually worked my way back to the forensic field and now work as a forensic social worker in a medium secure unit (as opposed to the high security of Broadmoor). The circle continues to turn as I am now finally doing a doctorate in training to be a counselling psychologist. That in itself is a venture in faith as the demands of the training are too arduous to complete on my own! Who knows which doors God will open in the future.
How do you feel your faith impinges on your workaday life...
Well, how would I manage without my faith? Apart from doing far too much- only God’s strength gets me through at all; I believe that He leads me both in a long term sense, but also from moment to moment. Part of my job entails assessing people as to whether they need sectioning under the Mental Health Act. This is probably the most difficult aspect of my job and the one which causes me the most stress. On the days when I am on call, I am particularly reliant on God’s help. I do believe that God can use me in the most difficult of circumstances as a conduit of His love, even when I am not aware of it.
How do you feel that you best convey your faith to those you meet day by day?
I’m not sure about this one. I’m not an in your face evangelist but believe that God can use anyone even in ways they dont know if they are open to Him. Maybe some would say that’s a cop-out, but I think that God uses us with the personalities we have. My colleagues are all aware that I have a faith in God that I believe keeps me going. I am very fortunate to have some Christian colleagues who are able to discuss things openly (usually reliance on God in the stress of the specific working environment we are in.)
Apart from the Bible, what book has had the greatest impact upon you by blessing, inspiring or helping you?
How can I pick one!!! There are so many that have been helpful at different stages in my life. When my prayer life has
become dry I have found Leslie Wetherhead’s ‘Private House of Prayer’ helpful. Anything by Tom Wright is wonderful- he is or was the Bishop of Durham and is a Bible scholar who is interested in knowing what the Bible meant to the time it was written in- so illuminating and inspiring. He’s not dry either- a real boost to my spiritual searchings.
What is your biggest doubt and how do you overcome this? And how do you know God is real?
My biggest doubt is why some people seem to have an experience of God so easily and others search but are met
with a seemingly silent God. If people are honestly searching, why does not God always come to them in a way
that they can understand? How do I overcome this? By trusting that God has His own ways and purposes and that is
part of the mystery of God that I may not like but His ways are higher than mine.
How do I personally know that God is real? Because my life is too full of ‘coincidences’ which are otherwise inexplicable,
and because of the wonder of creation.
Do you feel retirement has opened or shut more doors for you and what do you find most fulfilling about retirement?
I am not yet retired, but live my life at such a breakneck speed that retirement sounds a wonderful time, that’s if I ever
get there!! Time to actually do some of the things that seem forever on hold.
The song says 'For he walks with me and he talks with me' - can you give an example of when you literally felt God's presence walking beside you?
It depends what you mean by literally. When I am moved by music, or creation or poetry, or by a film, or by people, then I do interpret this as a spiritual experience and as being very much aware of God’s presence. My current studies are very much a walk of faith, and I have been aware that God has been there with me when I have been under greater pressure, helping me focus, concentrate and create. That’s not so much of a literal feeling, but an awareness that has been born of faith.
I'm struggling to find any meaning in corporate worship and don't want to attend church anymore? Do I have to go? What would you advise?
Of course our relationship with God is an individual one, but also we are called to be a corporate body God gives His glory to the church, and fills us with His presence both as individuals, but more, as a body of His people. As united people we really are the body of Christ, filled with His spirit. Maybe it’s not about finding personal meaning, but being part of a greater body when we worship and serve God together. I think what I am saying is that it’s not necessarily about what we get out of it, but what we can give to each other and to God in our worship which is also our service. Maybe go and find a church where you feel you can do this, which might take some effort. There will be times of dryness, and perhaps the struggle is about this. God rewards faithfulness. Concentrate on your relationship with Him in your daily life, and then meet with others as a way of being with others in order to encourage and build each other up which in turn will strengthen your faith
What piece of music/song/hymn etc gives you the 'tingle factor' and why?
I love all of Dad’s music- I can relate to it and am always stunned by the craftsmanship that goes into it- how it all works together intellectually as well as emotionally makes it so musically satisfying. At the moment I’m listening a lot to ‘Hymn at Sunrise’ which makes me weep with joy. Its so evocative of the magic of sunrise and absolutely expresses the whole of creation bursting with praise to God. I also find JS Bach gives me a tingle- similarly he combines passion with mathematical purity. Fabulous. So many more I could name, depending on mood- classical, rock, jazz, blues (Not into rap or trance though)
Do you think there is life on another Planet?
Who knows! I have in a little frame the following poem which I tore out of a paper, not sure which one some years ago:
Nor, in our little day
May his devices with the heavens to be guessed,
His pilgrimage to thread the Milky way,
Or his bestowals there be manifest.
But, in the eternities
Doubtless we shall compare together, hear,
A million alien gospels, in what guise
He trod the Pleiades, the Lyre, the Bear.
O be prepared my soul!
To read the inconceivable, to scan
The million forms of God those stars unroll!
When in out turn, we show to them a man.
When did you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how did it impact you?
I believe that when I personally gave my life to Jesus at the age of three, He came to live by His spirit in my life. There have been times when I was more or less in tune with His presence with me, but He is faithful and has never left. Impact? Well this is a statement of faith, but I believe that He is with me all the time, lifting me up when I fail, pointing things out to me when I’m ready to hear, and filling me with joy and worship when I sense His presence. He helps me believe in the first place!
Why there are so many different denominations in Christianity?
Because there are so many different personalities and types of people- some are inspired by liturgy and / or silence, whereas others prefer a more lively or noisy environment. God graciously offers us all kinds of ways of worshipping and serving together and individually. The difficulty comes when denominations claim to have absolute truth- Clearly some denominations are diametrically opposed in the things that they hold as vital. I remember a doctrine teacher at the Salvation Army Training College saying that the more she learned, the less she was sure about anything other than God loves her and that in some way, the death and resurrection of Jesus means that we can and will be able to be with God for ever. I kind of understand what she was saying.
How can Chinese people born before Jesus Christ be saved?
What an intriguing question! I wonder what the questioner had in mind in referring to Chinese people specifically! I believe that everyone will see him as he is and that time has nothing to do with this- God has shown Himself in various ways through creation, the prophets, and now through Jesus Christ (Hebrews). Creation shows us the creativity and fun aspects of God as well as his attention to detail from the minutest to the most universal. There is no reason why Jesus cannot show himself to people who have never had the chance to see him- after all he is divine with a spiritual body, not limited to time or space. Not sure how it works, but this body that we have is only a physical shell, our life or spirit doesn’t die- therefore it should be possible that the work of Jesus can have effect in some way beyond this physical existence.
Did Adam and Eve have navels?
It depends on whether you see Adam and Eve as 2 specific people, or whether you see them as man and woman. (If I said that I see them as myth, that would be myth as pointing to a truth- that God has created us human beings- how and when I don’t know, but I do believe that it is His creative life that flows within us- an amazing gift- kind of makes the navel question irrelevant for me personally)
Our Minister a couple of weeks ago was preaching and stated....God chooses what we go through, but we choose how we go through it. Does this mean that God chose for the marriage of our son to break down? Or for my Mother to suffer the way she is..??
I dont believe this statement to be correct, but what do you say about it.
How well do you relate to others or how do you think others see you?
Depends on whether I’m driving or not! Judging by the comments of people I cut up at roundabouts I may not be that wonderful! I know because people have told me that they see me as very fast in everything I do, whether speaking, moving, doing, or thinking- maybe that’s because I take on far too much! Others (my Mum and Dad for example) say that I have a calming and healing presence, gentle and romantic. I tend to get on well with most people. After all, I find people fascinating, hence my choice of future career.
What do you think happens to us when we die?
I think that we get to see Jesus as he really is, not the warped presentation that he is given sometimes on earth. And I think we will be overcome with love and joy at the complete acceptance of who we are and the knowledge that we will be all we can be absolutely fulfilled and perfect. And I think that we will say a resounding YES to God’s offer of eternal life.
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STEPHEN ARGENT
I am happily married to Sheila and the proud father of Will and his partner Anne, Elliot and Lydia and doting grandfather of Isla and Alex. I am also privileged to be the friend of Sheila's daughters Carolyn and Philly.
I have worked in Financial Services for most of my career having studied Law at University. I later took a degree in Psychology at the 0pen University and studied for an MA in Christian Spirituality.
I was brought up in the Salvation Army and remain proud of that heritage although I worship at my local parish church. I became a Christian in my late 20s and enjoyed over 20 years leading youth and children's activities at churches in London and Sussex. Amazingly many of those children have survived the experience and remain close friends. Over 30 are in full time ministry of some sort and many more serve faithfully in their local church. That time remains the most fulfilling experience of my life.
I remain very active in my church(church cleaning coordinator) and home group and recently Sheila and I were leaders of a training course in 121 evangelism at two Sussex churches.
We are currently working through the HTB "Marriage Course" and look forward to whatever God has planned for us next.
1. How did you meet/find the Lord?
My parents were both Christians but my own encounter with God took place in a Night Club in Guildford Surrey. I was away from home on a management conference with my employer. I was impressed by one delegate making a very public stance against swearing and blasphemy. Later in the week we were all out for the evening and the two of us got talking...
2. What do you personally get from knowing Jesus?
Unconditional love and a sense of meaning
3. Favourite quote from the Bible?
So many have been important at different times in my life but I keep coming back to:
Romans 8 v28
"and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him"
Revelation 2 v17
"To him who overcomes I will ..... give a white stone with a new name written on it known only to him who receives it"
Now, two questions asked by a 12 year old!
4. Favourite colour.
Tottenham Hotspur Lilywhite !
5. Colour of eyes.
Blue
6. Which individuals or factors have influenced your career path and was this a path you originally set out to follow?
I have never really had a clear idea of a career path. After University I drifted until at 50 I found myself in the European Management team of a huge Insurance Company. Returning home from a business trip to Berlin I decided that this was not how I wanted to spend my life, resigned and took a lower profile job.
7. How do you feel your faith impinges on your workaday life...?
Probably not as much as it should. I work in an ethical way in an industry not always associated with ..morality but many non-Christians endeavour to do the same. The nature of my work offers me the freedom and opportunity to build relationships with business people and it is surprising how often formal meetings move into discussions on more spiritual matters.
8. How do you feel that you best convey your faith to those you meet day by day?
By giving time to listen.
9. Apart from the Bible, what book has had the greatest impact upon you by blessing, inspiring or helping you?
Without doubt Viktor Frankl's "Man's search for meaning"
10. What is your biggest doubt and how do you overcome this? And how do you know God is real?
My biggest doubt is not in the faithfulness of God but in the weakness of my own nature.
Romans 8 v38
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future nor any powers neither height nor depth nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord"
..should be my favourite verse but somehow I can't absorb fully the awesomeness of this promise.
How do I know God is real..?
It's not something I can prove but I believe in an experiential faith based on relationship and love so I have glimpses of the unconditional love of God and the truth that is embodied in that love. It is something that in all conscience I could never deny.
11. What are your views re sacraments?
(b)What are your thoughts on baptism by full immersion
I do not have a clear view on sacraments and for that reason I am not able to be a "member" of the Church of England although I worship at my village church. It seems to me that we do not have a faith based upon proceedures or rituals but on a personal relationship. Nevertheless I respect many Christian friends who find Communion to be uplifting. I am made welcome to participate in Communion and do so willingly.
I can see the symbolism of full immersion and recognise the value of such a public declaration but have no inclination to make such a declaration myself. My spiritual mentor has suggested that this might be pride on my part and so the whole subject is, like me a work in progress.
12. What are your views about hell?
... I dont want to go there.
Seriously I have problems understanding the concept of eternal punishment (particularly when expoused by Calvinists) inflicted by God. I see Hell as self inflicted banishment from God's presence and particularly identify with the image suggested by C S Lewis' "The Great Divorce"
13. Do you feel retirement has opened or shut more doors for you and what do you find most fulfilling about retirement?
I am semi-retired, or at least not working at the level of a few years ago so I have greatly benefited from a significant reduction in stress and a proportionate increase in free time. I can now enjoy more time with my family and friends.
14. The song says 'For he walks with me and he talks with me' - can you give an example of when you literally felt God's presence walking beside you?
Sadly my first marriage broke down after 30 years and I was devastated by the experience and fearful for the future. It was not until I "reached the end of my hoarded resources" that I handed it over to God. I was not suicidal but in a very self indulgent way I said to God that I really wasn't bothered whether I woke up the next morning or not. I did wake up and being a Saturday I walked into the village to get a newspaper. The local church were singing carols in the street so I sat in a coffee shop to listen. 30 minutes later I was in conversation with the wonderful lady who is now my wife.... sometimes God is walking beside us but we only realise it later.
15. What for you has been a 'mountain top experience' and what is the difference between that and just feeling happy?
Getting married!.
We planned a small event but the whole church turned out. After the vows we turned to face a congregation of 400 people singing the following :
Shout to the Lord, all the earth,
Let us sing
Power and majesty, praise to the King;
Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
At the sound of Your name.
I sing for joy at the work of Your hands,
Forever I'll love You, forever I'll stand,
Nothing compares to the promise I have in You.
My Jesus, My Savior,
Lord, there is none like You;
All of my days
I want to praise
The wonders of Your mighty love.
My comfort, my shelter,
Tower of refuge and strength;
Let every breath, all that I am
Never cease to worship You.
Shout to the Lord, all the earth,
Let us sing
Power and majesty, praise to the King;
Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
At the sound of Your name.
I sing for joy at the work of Your hands,
Forever I'll love You, forever I'll stand,
Nothing compares to the promise I have in You.
Shout to the Lord, all the earth,
Let us sing
Power and majesty, praise to the King;
Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
At the sound of Your name.
I sing for joy at the work of Your hands,
Forever I'll love You, forever I'll stand,
Nothing compares to the promise I have in You.
Nothing compares to the promise I have
Nothing compares to the promise I have in you
..being happy doesnt even come close!
16. I'm struggling to find any meaning in corporate worship and don't want to attend church anymore? Do I have to go? What would you advise?
Firstly I believe it is important to retain a link with fellow Christians- a cinder that falls from the fire soon goes out-
Secondly become disciplined in personal prayer and Bible study for these may well help that corporate worship to become more meaningful.
Thirdly if worship is not working for you then see if your church has a small "home group" system or bible study group. If these are not important aspects of your church activities then pray about it. God will have a solution.
17. What piece of music/song/hymn etc gives you the 'tingle factor' and why?
And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Savior's blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain-
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
'Tis mystery all: th'Immortal dies:
Who can explore His strange design?
In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine.
'Tis mercy all! Let earth adore,
Let angel minds inquire no more.
'Tis mercy all! Let earth adore;
Let angel minds inquire no more.
He left His Father's throne above
So free, so infinite His grace-
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam's helpless race:
'Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For O my God, it found out me!
'Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For O my God, it found out me!
Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature's night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray-
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
Still the small inward voice I hear,
That whispers all my sins forgiven;
Still the atoning blood is near,
That quenched the wrath of hostile Heaven.
I feel the life His wounds impart;
I feel the Savior in my heart.
I feel the life His wounds impart;
I feel the Savior in my heart.
No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine;
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th'eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.
Bold I approach th'eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.
To the tune Sagina and played by a brass band
18. Do you think there is life on another Planet?
Eliminate the impossible and whatever is left however unlikely will be the solution...yes of course!
19. When did you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how did it impact you?
See above for my conversion experience. I cried, laughed, prayed in tongues and became a new person, looking towards God rather than away from Him.
20. Why there are so many different denominations in Christianity?
Many reasons, some of man and some of God. Man has often used the "church" for selfish reasons such as personal power and prestige but God has also empowered people to serve a particualr need and circumstance when the existing denominations have been unable or unwilling to respond.
21 How can Chinese people born before Jesus Christ be saved?
I have read many theological explanations which fail to convince so I don’t know how to answer except to say that I trust God
22. Did Adam and Eve have navels?
I am sure there were plenty of navel oranges in Eden
23. Being a Christian does not protect from the knocks that life throws up, how do you come to terms with being unable to serve as you have done in the past and instead of helping being the one who needs help? Seeing jobs undone which would have been 'meat and drink' for me in the past leaves me asking, Why?
I am still in my prime!
My church has a prayer network which has been so effective in responding to needs and opportunites for many years. the coordinator is in a wheelchair so always by the telephone....
24. Our Minister a couple of weeks ago was preaching and stated...."God chooses what we go through", " but we choose how we go through it". Does this mean that God chose for the marriage of out son to break down? or for my Mother to suffer the way she is..?? I don't believe this statement to be correct, but what do you say about it.
No answer can do full justice to a question like this however... I believe that we have been created to enjoy a loving relationship with God. Love is only possible if we have the choice to accept or reject it. I find it hard to accept that God deliberately inflicts suffering. However I do believe that much if not all suffering is the direct or indirect result of having that choice or free will. Professor Dawkins may well trivialise this but it is my experience that in my darkest moments my God has been there alongside.
25 How well do you relate to others or how do you think others see you?
I hope I relate well (and took a Psychology degree to prove it!) but not necessarily to everyone. We are all different and inevitably relate better to some people than to others. I hope that others will think of me kindly and those I have hurt will be forgiving.
26 What do you think happens to us when we die?
I think that most Christians have had a glimpse of heaven at some stage in their lives. For me it is , beyond peace, beyond healing, beyond joy.....beyond words
27. What do you really think about holiness - getting beyond the hype and spin?
I am coming to the conclusion that our Christain experience needs to mirror creation by growing and evolving. It should be a relationship which is enveloped by love for God for others and for ourself and that love should be expressed in a way chosen by God which is individual to each of us. The closer we get to that ideal, the closer we are to holiness.
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GRAHAM HATTON
Graham is a life long Salvationist who currently worships, with his wife, at the Chatham Corps (church) of the Salvation Army in England. He was the Secretary and then Treasurer for the church for nearly 24 years.
Having been made redundant from his job as a Management Accountant nearly 3 years ago, he took early retirement and now enjoys reading, walking and assisting his wife with her ministry to families in need.
1.
How did you meet the Lord?
I was introduced to the Lord at a young age by my mother as I grew up in a Christian home, but as I have progressed through life the Lord has revealed himself to me on many occasions and in a variety of ways to meet specific needs in my life.
2.
What do you personally get from knowing Jesus?
A purpose for living, as knowing Jesus adds a dimension to my life which is not found elsewhere. By focusing on the way Jesus lived his life I feel that mine is being raised to a” higher level".
3.
Favourite quote from the Bible
Psalm 139
O Lord you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down: you are familiar with all my ways. Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely O Lord. And each verse until the end of the psalm at verse 24
4.
Favourite colour
Joint favourites are Brown and Grey.
5.
Colour of eyes
Blue/Grey.
6.
Which individuals or factors have influenced your career path?
At a young age I thought that working in an office would appeal to me, possibly because my father worked in one in London. When I was 16 I obtained a job in a firm of accountants in Norwich where I commenced studying to be an accountant. I enjoyed the variety of work and progressed through different aspects of accountancy for 46 years.
7.
How do you feel your faith impinges on your workaday life?
Looking back over my career I realise how my faith and trust in God have helped me through many difficult situations at work, when either my or my colleagues jobs have been uncertain due to company restructuring etc., being able to be positive about an uncertain future has been beneficial. Faith in God has always helped me to be realistic about my expectations and the things in life that I have counted important.
8.
How do you feel that you best convey your faith to those you meet day by day?
I find this difficult to answer as I hope that by having to be part of "the world" at work and by showing a different approach to many of life's problems, I have been able to convey that my faith is real and relevant to all of life's situations.
9.
Apart from the Bible, what book has had the greatest impact upon you by blessing, inspiring or helping you?
Two books, completely different, come to mind: George Muller's "Delighted in God” and Nelson Mandela's "Long walk to freedom". The way George Muller depended entirely on God to answer his prayers for the running and financing of his orphanages in Bristol in the1830's inspires me because of his faithfulness to God and God's faithfulness to him. Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in prison on Robben Island, South Africa, because of his desire to see his fellow countrymen improve their rights in their homeland. Whether from Christian motives or not, Mandela demonstrates to me the power and resilience of the human body and mind and when combined with a faith and a trust in God, our strength can be awesome. I have often reflected on what this man suffered and how he bore his suffering. When I have been "up against it" I have realised that if he could do all that he did without God's help, then surely I, with my seemingly smaller problems, could do just as much if not more as I have God on my side.
10.
What is your biggest doubt and how do you overcome this?
I am not sure what my biggest doubt about God is, as I tend not to doubt when life throws unpleasant circumstances at me. I find myself saying "why not me" and trusting God for the grace and strength needed. I do however have some questions which will only be answered in heaven.
11.
What are your views re Sacraments?
While I find taking the Sacraments a very beautiful and moving experience, I do not feel they are necessary for my salvation. The dying thief on the cross didn't have time to be prepared for baptism before he was accepted into paradise. Accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour is just the start of a wonderful journey with Him and there are many acts of devotion and praise which are beneficial for spiritual growth.
12.
What are your views about Hell?
While I firmly believe that Hell is a place of endless torment for those in it, I also believe that it is a place of separation from God which can be experienced here on earth.
13.
Do you feel that retirement has opened or shut more doors……
Not being in full time paid employment has obviously meant that some doors have been closed to me in relation to my colleagues at work. But since semi- retiring from work, having been made redundant just over 2 years ago, I now have a greater variety of open doors, from my 1 day per week job, to adult education classes, walking in some lovely countryside and now being able to visit elderly people, with my wife during the day, God has certainly blessed me during this time.
14.
The song says "For he walks with me ………….."
No, I have never had an experience when I have heard God speak to me as directly as Paul did on the road to Damascus, but I am constantly made aware of His presence with me by the peace and calm I feel when doing His will.
15.
What has been a "mountain top experience……."
Yes you should go. Although you do expect to receive a blessing you also go to give praise to God for what He has done for you. The experiences of fellow worshippers can also give you encouragement and make you more aware of what you are missing in your life. I am reminded of a similar question posed to an old minister, who while sitting in front of a coal fire proceeded to take a live coal from the blazing fire and place it gently on the hearth, before long the blazing coal was loosing its heat and soon it ceased to burn. A poignant reminder of what can happen to a believer who no longer engages in corporate worship
16.
What piece of music gives you a tingle and why?
For many years I have been emotionally moved by the second movement of Mozart's Clarinet Concerto there are no words to this, that I know of, but there is something in the sound and style which produce a peace and calm in me every time I hear it played. For many years I have played Dean Goffin's "The Light of the World” with Chatham Band, and again I am moved whenever I hear or play it, but there are words which are associated with this music and they are "O Jesus I have promised to serve thee to the end etc" and it is the combination of the music and the meaning of the words which produces this effect in me.
18.
Do you think there is life on another planet?
Quite possibly, if God created the universe, why would He populate only our planet? I don't have any problem with that as nothing is beyond the power of my God.
19.
When did you receive the Holy Spirit?
I am not sure that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a once only event, for me, there haven't been any "blinding light experiences" but I have become more aware of His presence in my life, gradually, over the years. The impact has been that I have become more conscious of demonstrating the Fruit of the Spirit in my life which has needed to be transformed in my desire to be "like Jesus"
20.
Why are there so many different denominations?
We read in the Bible that the body of Christ is made up of many different members, each having their own unique role to play, and although we are all different we all have one thing in common, we all serve the same Saviour.
21.
How can Chinese people born before Jesus Christ be saved?
This is a question I have never seriously considered, but while thinking this through, how did anyone before the birth of Jesus get "Saved". The Old Testament indicates it was to do with faith in God and obeying His will and this was credited as righteousness. If God could credit as righteousness, holy living in Old Testament times, surely He could do it for the Chinese born before the birth of Jesus Christ.
22.
Did Adam and Eve have navels?
I don't feel I can answer the question at a technical level, but thinking logically, as they were not born by a normal human birth i.e. joined to the mother by a cord, then perhaps the answer is NO. But does it really matter?
21.
Being a Christian does not protect from the knocks that life throws up, how do you come to terms with being unable to serve as you have done in the past and instead of helping being the one who needs help? Seeing jobs undone which would have been 'meat and drink' for me in the past leaves me asking, Why?
It is helpful for me to know that when I had the opportunity to serve God in a particular way, I took that opportunity and faithfully carried out the tasks involved. Just as in a secular job we retire or give way to someone younger, so it is in serving the Lord. There is always a "right" time to pass responsibilities over to someone else who also feels that they are responding to God's call to accept positions within the church. We should not feel guilty about this as when "one door closes another opens" in serving God.
24.
Our Minister a couple of weeks ago was preaching
and stated...."God chooses what we go through", "
but we choose how we go through it". Does this
mean that God chose for the marriage of out son to
break down? or for my Mother to suffer the way
she is..?? I don't believe this statement to be
correct, but what do you say about it.
I must say that I don't agree with the statement "God
chooses what we go through", many situations which
arise are the direct consequence of a previous action,
whether human or of nature, but I do accept that we
choose how we go through them. I do believe that all
things work together for the good of those who trust
in God as stated in Romans ch.8.
25.
How well do you relate to others?
I am not a person who is the "life and soul of the party", and I don't do "small talk" well, so I suppose I don't come across very well. I have my "personality" which I use in trying to relate to others, and I have found that if I show a genuine interest in others, then they appreciate me for who I am, a friendly, sincere person.
26
What do you think happens to us when we die?
I believe that those who are to spend eternity in heaven will be transformed into people who can dwell with God there, not experiencing pain, death, ageing or sorrow and taking on His characteristics. I don't know how we will physically survive in heaven, what we will eat and drink etc. but I'm confident that my God who has planned this since creation has taken care of everything.
27.
What do you really think about Holiness?
Holiness to me is the "healthy" part of a spiritual life which is based on a daily relationship with the Holy Spirit, allowing Him access to all areas of my thinking, actions and living, which make my life what it is. In taking part in this Interview for Veil Ministries I have been in regular contact with the Holy Spirit to prepare my responses to the various questions, He has blessed me in my preparation. I trust He will bless you as you read them
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ADRIAN TORRANS
(Adrian is featured as the guest vocalist in the service of 24th January 2010 on this site)
Adrian was a third generation Salvationist until 1998 when his life changed in a number of ways. He, along with his wife Melita, currently Worship at Bangor Elim Pentecostal Church in Bangor, Co Down, Northern Ireland. Born and educated in Northern Ireland, Adrian is a manager with Xerox (UK Ltd) but at present unable to work due to a back condition which you can read all about on the prayer request section of the website. Married to Melita for the past 27 years, they have two children, Tanya who is married to Diego and Mark who is engaged to be married to Rachel in October. Adrian and Melita are also presently foster carers to Jamie who is 10.
Adrian’s priorities in life are his love for Jesus and his family. His interests are sport with football and golf being his favourites. He also enjoys music, particularly singing. At the moment sport is as an armchair fan, but is enjoying the present heights his loved Tottenham are scaling. He is praying that in the future the golf clubs can once again be lifted out of the garage and put to good use.
1.How did you meet/find the Lord? I was saved aged 7, like a lot of ‘Junior Soldier’ children brought up in The Salvation Army, but I can remember Mrs Annie Campbell, my Singing Company Sergeant, kneeling beside me at the Mercy Seat and I accepted Jesus into my heart at that young age.
2. What do you personally get from knowing Jesus? Where do I start? Well without knowing Jesus at a personal level my life would simply be empty. My biggest regret is that I didn’t get to know Jesus intimately as my friend as well as my Saviour that I learned about at 7 until I was 40 years old – a whole story by itself. 3. Favourite quote from the Bible? Isaiah 43:1 But now, thus says the LORD, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel: “ Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; (Adrian Torrans) You are Mine.” Brackets mine
Now, two questions asked by a 12 year old!
4. Favourite colour. I love natural shades like cream and brown, but purples when it comes to what my wife Melita is wearing.
5. Colour of eyes. Unfortunately a very non-descript greyish nothing really. No Paul Newman here I’m afraid.
6. Which individuals or factors have influenced your career path and was this a path you originally set out to follow? I never set out to work in the Printing Industry, I was one of those young lads whose father knew someone in this industry and told me that the job of a compositor was a great ‘trade’. I didn’t even know what the word meant. Now 34 years later it is a job I have almost always enjoyed. I have worked and lived Canada also and managed my own Prontaprint Franchise for seven years. So . . . my father initially was the influence, but many others have done so in this industry since.
7. How do you feel your faith impinges on your workaday life. My faith constantly gives me opportunity to speak for Jesus. Do I always take that opportunity? I try to be salt and light in a world that is pretty dark and when the opportunity arises I do what I can to grasp it with both hands. I can honestly say that my Christianity never impinges on my workaday life.
8. How do you feel that you best convey your faith to those you meet day by day? By being an encourager. Being unable to work for the past 17 months due to ill health has given me the opportunity to phone, text, Email or meet up when possible for coffee or lunch. My prayer every day is Psalm 16:8 “I have set the Lord always before me. Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken” General John Gowans puts it best in his song ‘To be like Jesus’ that is the aim of Adrian Torrans. It’s a huge aim, but one worth living for.
9. Apart from the Bible, what book has had the greatest impact upon you by blessing, inspiring or helping you? I have read almost all of Torey Hayden’s books. This inspirational teacher who spent her life working with the most difficult of children from the most horrendous situations has inspired me and has become invaluable in how I approach a particular aspect of my life today that God has placed both Melita and I in.
10. What is your biggest doubt and how do you overcome this? And how do you know God is real? I am not really a doubter. I know that sounds an arrogant statement, but I am a positive thinker and because I trust in a Sovereign God, then doubting is such a waste of time. How do I know God is real? I don’t have enough faith to believe He isn’t and as in question 2 – I know Him personally.
11. What are your views re sacraments? (b)What are your thoughts on baptism by full immersion I believe that baptism by full immersion is a powerful symbolic public act (at least it was for me) that showed I wanted my life to be different than it was up to that point. The verse in Matthew 28:19 is the most significant verse. I know that some view it as a direct command from Jesus and interpret it as without baptism, our salvation isn’t secure. That wouldn’t give many Salvationists or others that do not partake in baptism much of a chance. I don’t read of anywhere in Scripture Jesus actually baptising anyone, yet He was more than happy to be baptised by John. For me it is purely symbolic and a powerful way for an individual to show others that their life has changed and I am glad I did it – end of.
As for breaking of bread – again symbolic, but for me a beautiful and personal experience that I enjoy partaking in and each I time Communion is taken in the church I attend I always pray the words of Isaiah 53 as I take the bread and drink the wine (juice). Knowing that by His stripes I am healed is totally enough without ever having to take Communion, but the symbolism and actual partaking in it means so much to me personally, and I am always blessed.
12. What are your views about hell? I believe hell exists and I believe that heaven exists. The latter is being with Jesus forever and that’s all that matters for me.
13. The song says 'For he walks with me and he talks with me' - can you give an example of when you literally felt God's presence walking beside you? Yes . . . absolutely. One evening in my hospital bed, August 2008. I was struggling with really difficult thoughts due to my back pain and uncertainty of my future. I simply cried out to God and the incredible peace that came was tangible. It came instantly, which is very rare I have to say, but on this occasion ‘Jesus Himself drew near and sat with me’ – to adjust the words of another wonderful song. I feel His presence in my life every day, but this one time I will never ever forget.
14. What for you has been a 'mountain top experience' and what is the difference between that and just feeling happy? We have been blessed with three children during our 27 year marriage, but I can I recall the birth of our 1st child, Tanya as the most momentous feeling I had ever experienced. Being there and seeing my beautiful little girl come into this world, simply blew me away. Comparing that to just being happy is like choosing between Ben and Jerry’s ice cream or Marmite!
15. What piece of music/song/hymn etc gives you the 'tingle factor' and why? I don’t have a particular tingle factor piece of music. The middle movement of Mozart’s Clarinet Concerto comes close and David Phelps singing ‘No More Night’ certainly has the hairs on my neck do something odd. However, I can be playing ‘Great is Thy Faithfulness’ or ‘Fairest Lord Jesus’ at the piano and the same thing occur. Why? God created me as I am with my emotions etc. I believe it is down to how I am fearfully and wonderfully made as to how music makes me feel.
16. Do you think there is life on another Planet? Water, plants and the like – yes, but I believe that we humans created in God’s own image, exist only on our little planet earth as the only form of life as we know it.
17. When did you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how did it impact you? Pentecost Sunday 2000 was when I went to the front of the church I attended when the call was made to come forward for prayer and to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I remember wrestling with the thought. I had been a Salvationist for 38 years and it didn’t sit comfortably with me, yet I felt I wanted it. I did go forward and I felt . . . well . . . nothing. I met with friends that evening who again prayed with me. I went home and went to bed feeling rather flat. Next morning I was in bed with no-one else in the house as I was recovering from a shoulder operation. I simply asked the Holy Spirit to minister to me and just as He was invited – He came . . . gently, but with incredible power, imparting a gift to me that has proved to be invaluable in my life ever since. I believe it affected my singing ministry also, where every time I minister, I too am ministered to as I sing. Before . . . I simply sang, if you understand what I mean?
18. Why there are so many different denominations in Christianity? Quite simply put – I don’t know, but I sure wish there wasn’t.
19. How can Chinese people born before Jesus Christ be saved? Faith is the main reason. Like the patriarchs counted faithful before they knew Jesus. I believe God in His supernatural sovereignty can do all things.
20. Did Adam and Eve have navels? I am not in the slightest bit interested whether they did or not. They had enough trouble with apples!
21. Being a Christian does not protect from the knocks that life throws up, how do you come to terms with being unable to serve as you have done in the past and instead of helping being the one who needs help? Seeing jobs undone which would have been 'meat and drink' for me in the past leaves me asking, Why? I can only answer by what God is doing with me. I have a chronic back condition which requires major surgery on 30th January. Up until August 11th at 4.10 pm I was able to almost anything I needed to – on a physical level. From that moment on I haven’t been able to partake in any sport, barely go for a walk and am in constant pain (at different levels each day) due to my condition. However, I can say with utmost assurance, that during these 18 months, God has given me opportunities that I have never had before. I find myself having time to encourage more than ever have done – just one example. Yes, it bothers me when I watch Melita having to do much more than she should because I am unable, but again I have to be honest and say I don’t ask why? Really I do believe – why not me? There are plenty of people that have to go through the most difficult of situations and do so with incredible courage. I just hold on to Psalm 16:8 and pray it over my life every day. While my sovereign God is by my side, I will not be shaken. Jesus Himself told us that in this world we would have trouble, but to take heart, because He (Jesus) has overcome the world.
22. How well do you relate to others or how do you think others see you? I like to think I relate well to others. I love to have conversation and don’t find it difficult to make friends. I don’t have very much grey in my life, I’m pretty much a black and white kind of person and that can bring its problems when you have a strong view. I have hopefully gained some wisdom over the years. I think I am respected in the main for being the person that I am. I believe totally in Proverbs 27:6 – I would never tell someone something that they want to hear if I didn’t believe it was good for them. Learning to use the verse and do it ‘in love’ is a much more difficult task and many times I have failed. I pray that with wisdom and discernment God can use me to be a much better and effective person.
23. What do you think happens to us when we die? Simply put, if we know Jesus, death is something to look forward to. As put in The Salvation Army – a ‘Promotion to Glory’. We either see Jesus, face to face and have no more sorrow or crying and everything that we knew before will be transformed into His likeness. If we don’t know Jesus when we die, then the alternative is just as the Bible puts it – Hell, and we will not see Him. Not something to look forward to!
24. What do you really think about holiness - getting beyond the hype and spin? I can look like a well polished car – gleaming on the outside only to open the doors and find the car filled with all sorts of dirt and rubbish. The outside looks wonderful, but inside is rotten. Holiness for me is what is inside me, the part that Jesus sees. If my heart is in tune with Him, then what I speak will overflow out of that. The same can be said if I am not walking with Jesus. What you hear me speak will reflect that also. I don’t believe in any hype or spin with holiness. It is for me as General John Larsson (R) wrote about his dear friend General John Gowans (R). He knew both the private and the public face of John Gowans and they matched. That simply for me is holiness personified.
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JIM BLACK
Jim is a lifelong Salvationist who currently worships and is privileged to serve as Bandmaster and CSM in the Concord Community Church (Corps) in Northern California. Born and educated in Scotland, he and his wife Marion moved to the United States to work 34 years ago. Having retired as a senior executive from a Silicon Valley Software Company, Jim enjoys reading, flying in his airplane, and playing with his grandchildren
1. How did you meet/find the Lord?
I was born again at age 6! I know there are many people who dismiss child conversions, but I can assure them that they obviously have no experience of what they are talking about! That's a pity!
2. What do you personally get from knowing Jesus?
My relationship with Jesus has changed and grown over the years. At this point in my life I am enjoying the serenity, peace and joy of His Holy Spirit. This is not something which non-believers understand, but they certainly find it very attractive!
3. Favourite quote from the Bible?
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be : but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him
Now, two questions asked by a 12 year old!
4. Favourite colour.
“Yes” - now that is a strange answer, but compared to black-and-white colour is my favourite. Of the colours I perceive I usually prefer blue.
5. Colour of eyes.
Blue!
6. Which individuals or factors have influenced your career path and was this a path you originally set out to follow?
I originally studied and trained to be a physicist – but have never worked in physics my whole life! Looking in the “rear-view- mirror” of my life, I see God's influence working especially through some very stressful situations. Very often I'd get to the limit of my planning and when I finally said “OK – let's do it Your way” things miraculously worked out! What an amazing path which has taken me all over the world from Scotland to California and given me the resources to retire (from paid employment!) at age 50.
7. How do you feel your faith impinges on your workaday life...
My faith does not impinge on my life, my faith is my life!
8. How do you feel that you best convey your faith to those you meet day by day?
I find people are very attracted to love, joy, peace.. i.e. the fruits of the Spirit! So by living in the Spirit in a way which makes me available to those seeking truth, the source of those inner qualities eventually becomes the question of the moment.
9. Apart from the Bible, what book has had the greatest impact upon you by blessing, inspiring or helping you?
Albert Einstein's “General Theory of Relativity”. The “God-ness” of E = mc2 reminds me all the time of the awesomeness (in the truest sense of that word) of the God who has chosen to be friends with me!
10. What is your biggest doubt and how do you overcome this? And how do you know God is real?
I'm not sure how to answer about my biggest doubt, because I don't know how to identify it. I try to live my life without doubts – although I have lots of interesting questions, many of which can only be answered in Heaven! As a young man I had a minister who counseled me - “Believe your beliefs and doubt your doubts, but never doubt your beliefs or believe your doubts”. Doubting is a waste of energy. Just ask meaningful questions – God will (eventually) get you answers!
11. What are your views re sacraments? (b)What are your thoughts on baptism by full immersion
I am very careful about expressing my views on the sacraments, because like the Samaritan woman Jesus encountered by the well, they often just distract from essential questions! Having said that, I do not believe they are necessary to my salvation – for example: I don't think the thief on the cross who entered paradise was particularly concerned about whether or not he was baptised!
I am convinced that salvation is just the beginning of a relationship with God, and there are many acts of devotion which individuals find helpful for growth. The sacraments for me fall in this category. If they will promote growth in my relationship, I'm for them. If they only serve to divide (as they do in many denominations) I'm against their practise.
12. What are your views about hell?
I believe hell is a state of being separated from God. I do not intend to verify this!
13. Do you feel retirement has opened or shut more doors for you and what do you find most fulfilling about retirement?
Obviously, not being in the “rat-race” of paid employment closes some doors for me in terms of those with whom I have daily contact. However, one of the doors which has opened is that I am able to spend profligate amounts of time enjoying my grandchildren in a way I was never able to do with my children because of work commitments. I truly thank God for the experience!
14. The song says 'For he walks with me and he talks with me' - can you give an example of when you literally felt God's presence walking beside you?
No and yes! I have never had the Emaeus Road experience of knowing the physical presence of the Saviour with me, but I constantly have the calm reassurance that He is with me. As we Scots say “better felt than tell't”!
15. What for you has been a 'mountain top experience' and what is the difference between that and just feeling happy?
Just feeling happy is the absence of unhappiness – duh! That's generally my temperament, so it's unusual for me to be unhappy. However, I have had moments of complete awe and bewilderment at the love and power of God in my life when I have to exclaim “How great Thou art”!
16. I'm struggling to find any meaning in corporate worship and don't want to attend church anymore? Do I have to go? What would you advise?
Yes you have to go, because it's not about you! Get over it! Don't go to church to get something out. Go to praise and worship God with others who are there to do the same. Now, I realise this may mean changing where you worship if the people you are associating with are all out to “get” something from worship. Just go and worship God and then see if the question makes any sense!
17. What piece of music/song/hymn etc gives you the 'tingle factor' and why?
Sir Edward Elgar's “Nimrod” - makes me cry every time! Similarly with the ending of Dean Goffin's “Light of the World” - I can't even play it without choking up. Now, if I knew the answer to “why” I'd be very rich indeed!
18. Do you think there is life on another Planet?
Wouldn't surprise me in the least! Is my God great enough for that? Absolutely! Would it make me doubt my faith? No way!
19. When did you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how did it impact you?
Can't put a precise date on that because it was more of a gradual realisation of His increasing presence in my life. However the impact has been that I love to study scripture more and more, and I have become more aware of the areas in my life which need further transformation before I am truly “Like Him”!
20. Why there are so many different denominations in Christianity?
Because God gave us each the privilege of worshipping Him in the way we choose. And I think He seems to enjoy the diversity and multiplicity of worship. In reading the Bible – e.g. Rom 14 and 15, I am struck by how God wants unity but not uniformity in his church.
21 How can Chinese people born before Jesus Christ be saved?
Bit of a mystery that! But you may well have asked how did Moses get saved? As I read the Bible it all seems to have to do with faith. The kind of total agreement with God that gets counted (or “reckoned”) as righteousness and then as Hebrews tells us – Christ died once and for all! I sometimes think we get too caught up in this aspect of “time”. The Bible tells us that God is “eternal” which is literally “outside of time”. This also explains, at least for me, why God wants us to pray even although something has already happened or He has decided the outcome. As an aside, science is beginning to catch up a little with God's thinking. My friend Einstein found that time and space were interchangeable in a certain kind of way!
22. Did Adam and Eve have navels?
Yes and no! As literal beings who probably evolved (not enough time or space to go into that answer – you can email me if you want to have a discussion!) I think they probably did. As prototypes of the human race which led to sin and were the first sentient beings – no! I like to pose this question to start a discussion where I invariably say “It doesn't matter. Jesus matters!”
23. Being a Christian does not protect from the knocks that life throws up, how do you come to terms with being unable to serve as you have done in the past and instead of helping being the one who needs help? Seeing jobs undone which would have been 'meat and drink' for me in the past leaves me asking, Why?
I feel God is undoubtedly asking others to use those opportunities. If he wanted me (or you) to fulfill them He would enable or equip me to do so. Unfortunately sometimes others say “no” to God's leading and thwart His plans temporarily. There's no need to feel guilty about it, but our role may have changed to one of exhortation and encouragement.
24. Our Minister a couple of weeks ago was preaching and stated...."God chooses what we go through", " but we choose how we go through it". Does this mean that God chose for the marriage of out son to break down? or for my Mother to suffer the way she is..?? I don't believe this statement to be correct, but what do you say about it.
Not knowing all the circumstances makes it hard to give an informed opinion on this, so I will pass on the specifics. However I can say that I have personally proved the truth of Romans 8:28 in that God is actively working all the circumstances (including those He did not choose or plan for us) of our lives for our good. May I suggest that you eagerly seek for the answer to how God's goodness will eventually be revealed in these circumstances.
25 How well do you relate to others or how do you think others see you?
As a very shy person, the answer to the first part is “not very well”. However I have learned that I must interact with people and so I have practised skills which allow that to happen – even although it is sometimes (very) uncomfortable. However, through all this I have learned that if I try to be interested in others they seem to think I'm friendly, gregarious and devastatingly handsome. OK, I made that last bit up!
26 What do you think happens to us when we die?
I am counting on being transformed into a person with all the characteristics of Jesus and enjoying heaven. I have difficulty using words like “spending eternity” or “living forever” because they are time-based and I will be entering a realm in which time is irrelevant. Obviously I cannot “prove” any of this which is why what I believe is called “faith”. However, all the other things I believe about God which have been revealed in the Scripture are working out for me, so I think I am on pretty solid ground here. (You have no idea how hard it was not to substitute “rock” for “ground” there!) For those who do not have the hope I do – see my answer on Hell. I do not wish to sample that state in any way, so they are on their own. They have the same warnings and promises I do!
27. What do you really think about holiness - getting beyond the hype and spin?
As I said previously, my faith doesn't impinge on my life, it is my life. And holiness is just the “healthy” part of that life. It has nothing to do with outward piety or show, it is all about living and breathing the holy spirit every conscious moment and letting the Holy Spirit guide my living. I might rephrase the question as “What do you think about blood flow (or breathing) beyond the hype and spin?” Like those, the withdrawal symptoms if you stop are pretty devastating. Much better to exercise and enjoy the health and vitality that follows. For example I am consulting the Holy Spirit as I type these answers! I hope He is blessing you!
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The first to be interviewed
was the founder of
VEIL MINISTRIES,
Dr. Malcolm Westwood
1. How did you meet/find the Lord?
My discovery of God has been a series of ‘finds’. Perhaps it would be more accurate to describe it as a continuing discovery.
Having been born into a home where Christian values were taught, I had little choice to be aware of this ‘God’ who I was expected to acknowledge. At about the age of 6, I remember the Sunday School leader asking who wanted to love Jesus. It seemed the natural thing to say that I did.
In the denomination to which I belonged, music is an important part of the worship and it was through the music that I began to hear God’s voice.
As a minister, when people in need or who have been intent on seeking God, I have ‘seen’ God.
So, to summarise, through an awareness, a hearing, a seeing, I have found God and that has given me a desire to find out more and more about him. That desire is a continuous one.
2. What do you personally get from knowing Jesus?
Hope, perspective, comfort, a sense of purpose, meaning, enjoyment, companionship, knowledge, spiritual depth.
3. Favourite quote from the Bible?
Because there are so many great quotes it’s difficult to pick one-or even a few- but there is something quite wonderful hearing God say to me:
Be not afraid for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. (Isaiah 43:1)
Now, two questions asked by a 12 year old!
4. Favourite colour. Blue or purple
5. Colour of eyes. Pale blue
6. Which individuals or factors have influenced your career path and was this a path you originally set out to follow?
Looking at the reasons I did not pursue the careers that I might have followed would possibly reveal why I became what I did! But that would take more than the few lines I have to answer the question. Extraordinarily, I think I’d have to say that it was the result of negative rather than positive influences which channelled me to become a minister. Obstacles and events ensured I had to change direction and this brought me to specific choices at various times in my life. One fact for which I have always been grateful is that I cannot claim any particular individuals have influenced my decision to become a minister. Perhaps it may seem strange to say that, but it has meant that I have never needed to rely on anyone for motivation to do God’s work other than God. God himself seems to have blessed me with a desire to serve him. However, I discovered that everything in which I had been involved before becoming a minister I was able to use in the ministry.
7. How do you feel your faith impinges on your workaday life...?
A minister’s life is a curious mixture of mixing with the super saints and the abject sinners. I suspect I am not alone in saying that exercising belief is often more difficult when dealing with the saints! The sinners may not accept the Christian faith I hold and try to share with them, but I have found they will allow me to minister to them in Christ’s name. They recognize and appreciate even the smallest example of godliness. Sometimes, the saints have ‘heard and seen it all’ so often that, ironically, it is more difficult to share the faith and for it to be seen to be ‘new every morning, yet I prefer to be in the company of Christians! Maybe the psychologists who will read this will read into that remark something which I do not intend!
8. How do you feel that you best convey your faith to those you meet day by day?
Like everyone, I have strengths and weaknesses. Others may disagree with my analysis but that’s always the risk of answering such questions as these!
I have been fortunate that as a minister I had the opportunity of regularly preaching what I believe, to congregations, members of which I’m pleased to say became my friends and I would hope that indicates some measure that I have been able to convey my faith. I have also valued working with small groups where one can really share some basic thoughts on one’s faith. The Alpha course comes to mind in particular.
It also been my privilege to have had the opportunity to share my faith when I have rehearsed musical sections and conducted musicals. I’ve enjoyed some great moments doing that.
Writing articles on songs and poetry are other ways of sharing my faith but how effective that has been/is must be left to the opinions of others.
9. Apart from the Bible, what book has had the greatest impact upon you by blessing, inspiring or helping you?
My love of literature really started when I was studying for what was then called O-levels. The set books on my course I can remember to this day: ‘Dare To Be Free’ by W.B. Thomas, ‘Northanger Abbey’ by Jane Austen, ‘Androcles and the Lion’ by G.B. Shaw, and Shakespeare’s Richard ll. Today, reading books by Charles Dickens or Jane Austen is one of life’s greatest pleasures.
I am indebted, too, for Wm. Barclay’s Study Bible which aroused so much curiosity in me and set me off en route to several theology degrees. And who could not be challenged by Dennis Bennett’s “Nine O’ Clock In The Morning’.
I’m cheating, of course because I’m supposed to give the title of one book. I find that impossible. So many have influenced me.
That musical giant Ray Steadman-Allen loaned me (and then gave me, I think because it took so long for me to return it to him!) Harold Hind’s The Brass Band. Magic!
Not to everyone’s taste but Louis Berkhof’s ‘Systematic Theology is a great book into which to delve.
I would also mention, ‘God and The British Soldier’ by Michael Snape. This is a book I would recommend to anyone who has dealings in any way with the military.
If I wanted to write a book there could be no better templates than Albert Orsborne’s, ‘The House of My Pilgrimage’ or John Gowans’ ‘There’s a Boy Here’. They are unequalled in readability.
If someone would like to ask me to name the top 30 books which have influenced me, I’d find that a much easier question!
10. What is your biggest doubt and how do you overcome this? And how do you know God is real?
Ouch!- This is not a question I looked forward to answering because I am not an easy believer. I envy those who are. The devil does not let me off lightly.
I share with everyone a basic need to make the decision to believe in God. If I cannot resolve that question, all other doubts become irrelevant. Once I make that decision, all otherdoubts can be resolved. If there is a God, then he is omnipotent. I may have to grapple with why his power is sometimes evident and why it is sometimes not, but the existence of God makes all things possible.
How do I resolve the big question of the existence of God?
I remember the day when my doubts were great, and God took a hand. Typically he did so by using an everyday illustration. As I was shaving, I was thinking about the news which was breaking, at that time, of the first heart transplant. It was truly mind-blowing technology. Washing away the tiny whiskers from the wash basin, I noticed that I had missed one. As I went to flick it with my finger it moved! I tried again and it moved again. I realized it was the tiniest, tiniest insect imaginable. As I put my finger near it, it veered in the opposite direction and I realized that this minute insect must have a nervous system. If I tapped the wash basin, the insect reacted, so it had an auditory system too. It certainly knew where the safest place away from me, was so it had some form of vision. To enable it to move it had respiratory and muscular systems and if I squashed it, a speck of blood would have been seen, revealing that it had a blood circulatory system.
I was marveling-quite rightly-that man had transplanted a human heart, yet here was this tiny insect with all the systems necessary to make it a living being on which no one- even with the most advanced microsurgery -could begin to operate. How on earth could anyone get all those systems inside one miniscule body! God smiled and said, “I did it!”
My doubts lie in the wash basin!
11. What are your views re sacraments? (b)What are your thoughts on baptism by full immersion
When we vote for a political party, we are saying that in the broadest sense, we agree with their manifesto. There may be some issues which we might like to question and a political party has to make allowances for differing views. In some ways, I can see that as a parallel to church practices. I happen to have been brought up in a denomination which does not practise the sacraments and I have always held to that tradition. I do, however, have the greatest respect for those churches which do celebrate the sacraments and I can understand why those who partake of them feel they receive so much blessing.
I have witnessed in churches the sacraments being celebrated with utter sincerity and real passion. Any ritual which helps people to increase their sense of the presence of God must, in my opinion, be welcomed. On the other hand, any church which wishes to make the point that no ceremony is essential to sense God’s presence must also be allowed to make such a correct statement. It should-again in my opinion-be open to question as to how long it takes to make the point that no ceremony or ritual is essential and perhaps there comes a time to say, having made that point very clearly and effectively, there is no further reason to be different in tradition to most other mainstream churches.
However what does concern me is the attitudes taken to the differences in the manner of celebrating the sacraments. Some denominations strongly insist on their importance, but the regularity and style of how they are administered seems to me to cause needless disagreement between many a church, with some congregations not being allowed to take the sacraments when visiting churches which do not administer them in the same way.
Theologically, I cannot say I find Scripture insisting as essential that the sacraments be observed as a ritual but I am open to the suggestion that this view may have been coloured by my personal upbringing. However, I do believe that the Christian life should be sacramental in every respect. I would add that none of my theology studies have offered a view which challenges mine to such an extent that I feel more strongly on the matter. In such a relatively short answer, there isn’t room to quote the various Bible passages and offer reasoned arguments on them. (I am asked what are my views on the sacraments, not to support or dismiss them!)
If the sacraments help to bring someone nearer to Jesus, then, for that person, they are invaluable I would suggest. But if someone feels becoming closer to Jesus would not be something they felt would happen by celebrating the sacraments, I fail to see why insisting on a ceremony for the sake of it would be meaningful.
Receiving the sacraments should mean seeking a closeness with Christ and thus, the sacraments would become a means of blessing.
Because I am asked for a personal view on the subject, I can say that I applaud my denomination’s desire to make the important point that no ceremony is essential to receive grace. I would however not be unhappy to hear that they feel the point has been well and truly registered and it was now deemed time to introduce the ritual into our denomination.
(b) Full Baptism
Any ceremony which gives meaning to Christians has to be welcomed. Symbolically, it represents the old life passing away and an embracing of new life offered by the sacrifice of Christ. I am personally not convinced that the Scripture says it is essential for Christians to be baptized. Jesus is not recorded as baptizing anyone in water even though he was happy to observe the ritual when he himself was baptized by John.
Having said that, baptism can be a moving and memorable ceremony, and of course, it should be.
As with all symbolic ceremonies, baptism can be devoid of value if the person’s heart is not right with God. If the ceremony doesn’t actually reflect that essential cleansing and renewing of the heart by the grace of God, then it is of little value.
If anyone feels this is a ceremony which would hold special significance for them, far from there being any doctrinally objections, it is something which they should not feel they have to deny themselves whatever their denominational bias may be.
Having been brought up in a denomination which doesn’t have baptism, I don’t feel personally deprived but I allow that some might. The decision should be left to the individual who should seek God’s guidance.
12. What are your views about hell?
I think I know from where the questioner is coming i.e. if God is a God of love, and he is omnipotent, how could he bear to see anyone go to hell when he has the power to prevent it.
Let me go to that point that we call death. No one actually knows what happens between God and the person in those last moments. I suspect that there are far more deathbed conversions than we might think. Sometimes when a loved one passes away, and they have not been a professing Christian, Christian relatives have been dismayed and distressed. But God is a God of love and so will keep his offer of salvation open until the last possible moment. We only have to remember the penitent thief on the cross to understand that.
But that still leaves us with a residue of people who have chosen to be as evil as can be imagined, and who often profess to glory in it. If God’s heaven is to be peopled by regenerated beings-and the evil people refuse that regeneration-I cannot see how they can be admitted to heaven. It’s just a personal view, of course, but I don’t want to spend eternity fearing I’m going to get mugged by someone who refuses to be made ‘clean’ through the shed blood of Christ.
If there are those who steadfastly refuse to accept Jesus’ cleansing and they choose to maintain their evil ways, they make the choice not to be in heaven. And that’s as far as I want to go with the description of hell-for me it’s simply ‘not being with Jesus.’ (I’m assuming now that the second coming has happened or a person has died.) No amount of flames or devilish activity could be worse than ‘not being with Jesus.’
What I do think is a terrifying thought is that believing that the soul is immortal, choosing not to be with Jesus in heaven may seem tolerable for a short while to an evil person but to be evil for eternity is just an utterly unbearable thought.
Again, I have tried not to make this answer a theologically academic one. Scripture quotations could be included with my reasoning for the statements I make, but in this interview, I’ve tried to give my views as requested rather than the reasons for my views. A single sentence question ‘Do you believe in hell?’ would need to be answered by ‘I believe hell is “not being with Jesus.”
And that is a choice which is open to all of us. I think we can get sidetracked by trying to find a detailed description of hell. It’s not going to get any better or worse depending on the ferocity of the flames! Equally, of course, we struggle to find adequate descriptions of heaven as well but surely most of us are content knowing that ‘we will be with Jesus.’ That is enough for me!
13. Do you feel retirement has opened or shut more doors for you and what do you find most fulfilling about retirement?
Hmmm, that’s an interesting question.
In the denomination to which I belong, it is not usual to share pulpit ministry with other denominations. It does happen sometimes but not often. And consequently when one retires, one’s preaching opportunities are restricted to whether one is well known or not within the denomination.
I always greatly valued having a continuing regular ministry with ‘my own’ congregation and when that ended due to retirement, inevitably that door closed.
I have always written newspaper articles, songs and poems and in retirement I try to continue to do that but I wouldn’t say that area of ministry has increased.
Being helped by a gracious Christian friend to create a Christian website has opened a different door of ministry but nothing compares with the church pulpit.
In retirement I been able to take another theological degree and that has opened the door of more knowledge for me, though I suspect it has little opportunity to benefit others.
On a personal basis, my wife and I have been able to see far more of our children and grandchildren than when we were so involved in the day-to-day ministry of church life and that is a considerable blessing to us.
Summarising, and to be very honest, I would say different doors have opened but more doors have shut than have opened. That is not a complaint. One is always the last to know if one is ‘past it’ and I am grateful that that decision is taken by others in whose hands it rests to invite me!
14. The song says 'For he walks with me and he talks with me' - can you give an example of when you literally felt God's presence walking beside you?
I would love to give a longer answer to this question than space will permit but I will use the illustration that I would have used in a longer version and pray that the wonder will not be diminished by its brevity.
In my first ministerial appointment, I went through somewhat of a crisis of calling. I longed to be doing what I was doing before I entered the ministry which I felt was equally God honouring to what I was doing now. Foolishly, I decided I would ‘do a Gideon.’ I began to walk home from the church. I could take two ways home and decided I would stand at the junction and the fleece I laid down was that God would have to tell me very clearly which road I should take, left or right. I stood there in my clerical dress a considerable time and it began to get dark. It was in the days before mobile phones and I knew that my wife would be concerned if I didn’t arrive home soon. I began to feel rather silly. I’m not sure how I expected God to tell me to go left or right but I was determined that he would! After what seemed to be a very long time my connection with Gideon seemed to lose its appeal. My shoulders drooped, my spirit sagged and then just as I was about to give up my quest for directions, a car drew up and the driver leaned across and asked if I would kindly get in. I was so amazed that, without question, I did as I was requested. The driver drove off without saying another word and in about 100 yards pulled in to a supermarket car park, whereupon he broke his heart. He sobbed and he sobbed and he sobbed. I had not been a minister for very long and discovered just how inexperienced I was in those moments. Then through his tears, he said, ‘I had just come from the hospital where my wife has died. I am not a believer and for the first time in my life I prayed- ‘Dear God if you are there send me to somebody who can help me.’ I came round the corner and you were standing there.’
I realized in that moment that God did not want me to go left or right. He wanted me to stay exactly where I was! I cannot think of a more spine tingling moment when I felt God’s presence more.
15. What for you has been a 'mountain top experience' and what is the difference between that and just feeling happy?
As I’ve intimated in previous answers, I’m not someone who can recount angels waking me etc!-but there are times when I have been blessed with an extra sense of God’s presence.
When I entered the ministry in the 1970s, I remember being inspired and amazed by reading about Kathryn Khulman. I didn’t know much about her Christian background but it was obvious that God used her as a channel for his grace and power. Compared to her ministry, mine was hardly worth mentioning but there came a day when I prayed with someone to receive the Holy Spirit and the same extraordinary phenomenon happened that I had read about in Kathryn Khulman’s books. I became aware, not of any personal ‘power’ but simply that I was standing on holy ground.
The difference between such an experience and just feeling happy is that I can make myself happy. Watching Liverpool FC win 6-0 or reading a Dicken’s book can make me happy. Perhaps I should substitute the word ‘content’ for ‘happy’. I am often content but only God can give me a mountain top experience.
16. I'm struggling to find any meaning in corporate worship and don't want to attend church anymore? Do I have to go? What would you advise?
I think there’s a real danger in going to church expecting to just receive. Obviously receiving from God when we are in church is an important part of churchgoing. We receive grace and strength there. It’s also often a time when, separated for a while from the busyness of life, we can make time to receive God’s forgiveness for our failure to be as like him as we would wish.
But it would be hypocritical to claim that all church services fill us with ecstasy! Sometimes the choir is definitely off key, the hymns are too modern or too ancient for our liking, and the preacher seems to have had an argument with his breakfast.
But pause for a moment and consider if those taking part in the service have been prayerfully supported. How many have brought before the Lord, before the service, asking that they might be instrumental in bringing God’s message to the congregation. And, of course, it must be a question we ask ourselves. If we are not receiving a blessing, it could be that we are contributing to that fact.
So my first observation would be to ask myself if I am playing my part. It is not that uncommon for a church member who grumbles about “getting nothing from the service” to simply turn up to church unprepared and demands to be blessed. 50% of every church service is what we are giving.
Then, I must remember that there are many who attend church who are needy in many different ways. Perhaps no one else has said a kind word to them all week. They may live on their own and have literally not felt someone’s physical touch on their arm or shoulder and they’re just longing for someone to show they care. The Minister cannot do it all every Sunday to everybody! It’s part of the ministry of every Christian to each other.
So if someone is failing to find meaning in corporate worship, I would want to ask if they are considering church as a place where they go only to have their needs met and not to give. But assuming their attitude to church going is correct and there is still a sense of dissatisfaction, I would strongly recommend a person to enter into his or her prayer ‘closet’ to ask God to reveal an area of ministry which will fulfill God’s plan and satisfy the unrest in the person.
Sometimes God does alert people that there is more to do and it could be within the same church or it may be in another one. But I would hesitate to suggest leaving a church without a great deal of communing with God. There is an old adage which says, “If you’re not happy where you are, you won’t be happy where you’re going.” The only reason to move churches is that God wants you ministering elsewhere.
17. What piece of music/song/hymn etc gives you the 'tingle factor' and why?
Here we go again! There are so many!
Can I once again cheat and do it in categories, please.
(a) HYMN: Standing on Holy Ground. VOCAL Classical: Misere Mei, Deus (Allegri)
(b) PIANO: ‘Notturno’ from Lyric Pieces V by Grieg
(c ) ORGAN: Symphony no 3 in C Minor (Organ Symphony) by Saint Saens
(d) BRASS: Assuming I can’t have all of RSA’s work, I’ll choose ‘For our transgressions’ by Morley Calvert
(e) ORCHESTRAL: Symphony no 6 in F (Pastoral) by Beethoven
18. Do you think there is life on another Planet?
It depends what is meant by life. If animal/human life is meant, then no. If by life it means the conditions which could support life, like water, then I see no reason why it should not exist. Looking at it logically, one would think that if man on planet Earth having ignored God’s commandments, God could simply have obliterated us and turned to his other creative beings, if they existed on other planets with whom he could share the fellowship that he wanted to have when he created life. It does seem that we are special and unique to him.
Realistically, with the colossal expense of space exploration, it may never be possible to explore other planets before it is time for Jesus to return so the question becomes somewhat academic!
19. When did you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how did it impact you?
In answering these questions, I been struck by the difficulty in defining the terms used. For instance what for one is the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not viewed in similar terms by others. Some would claim that unless the gift of tongues is displayed, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is incomplete. (That is not my view). Others would say there is not a single baptism, but it is an experience which can happen often, even daily.
I’m not sure that my experience is typical, but then, I’m not sure that any experience of the Holy Spirit is ‘typical’!
In the 1970s I went hear an evangelist called Trevor Dearing. It was the first time I had been exposed to people coming under the influence of the Holy Spirit’s anointing. The sight of people falling to the ground under the anointing was a little alarming to one who had been nurtured in a church of traditional teaching. Part of me wanted to be involved in what was happening while another part was hesitant lest I should be thought to be disloyal to my traditional denomination. I took the decision to observe! But that night away from the service, God reminded me of Peter’s vision when he had to realise it was not up to him to decide what was acceptable or honouring to God. I returned to see Trevor privately the next day to confess my reluctance to accept what happened at the previous evening’s service. He was very understanding and we agreed that he should pray for the Spirit’s anointing on me. I stood, arms folded and feet a good 2 feet apart, solidly anchored to the grund. If the Holy Spirit was going to anoint me he was going to have to do it with me vertical! There was no way I was going to become a ‘fallen statistic’!
I would like to say that God overwhelmed me with his presence and that it would not have surprised me if a host of angels had appeared in person. What I have to record is a huge ‘nothing - absolutely nothing- zilch…!’. I did not feel anything spiritual at all. Truth to tell I felt utterly frustrated and a little annoyed. Had I been conned?!
Trevor shrugged good-naturedly and said one could not dictate to the Spirit how he should act. Taking this as an indication that the anointing session was over, I headed for the door and went home rather disappointed. The next few days passed without incident but then without warning, I suddenly became aware of the most beautiful and amazing presence. I was overwhelmed by a sense of love and peace and compassion. I cannot say that I felt empowered but I was given a very clear insight that God’s unlimited powers were available. Life took on a new perspective once I became aware that God was definitely all-powerful, all knowing and ever willing to deal with any situation I might face.
Would the anointing have come differently if I had been more open to what God wanted for me rather than what I wanted for me? Yes, I think it would. I’m just grateful that God doesn’t hold grudges (!) and he blessed me in the way that he did despite my ungracious request to receive his Spirit my way.
Some people who experience the blessing of the anointing of the Holy Spirit speak of a warmth which makes them tingle. I would use the word ‘warmth’ in a slightly different sense. To me it was-and is-the feeling of being at one with God. The warmth of being in fellowship with God is really indescribable but it would be difficult to find a better word.
20. Why there are so many different denominations in Christianity?
I suppose a trite answer would be “because there are so many Christians and where you have a lot of people, you have a lot of different ideas!”
But a more serious answer would need to cover two aspects, I feel.
1. There are some Christians who feel very strongly about some aspect of doctrine. It is not surprising that like-minded people group together. If their existing church does not wish to share that doctrine, those Christians may feel that if no other denomination gives sufficient emphasis on that doctrine either, then establishing a new denomination is the only alternative left.
Of course, it does not have to be a matter of doctrine, The Salvation Army, for example, branched away from Methodism not as the result of any doctrinal issue but because William Booth saw ministry in a different way.
It is all too seldom remembered that what all denominations have in common is much greater than that which separates them.
2. What does keep denominations apart can sometimes be an insistence by a denomination that it has a monopoly of God’s revelation. The ‘we are right’ is not helpful to Church unity. And, of course, we must remember the human element in all this. People feel comfortable with the style of worship with which they have been brought up. And sometimes, merging denominations could mean loss of prominence for officials-and we’re all human!
Personally, I’m not unhappy with the thought that there are so many different denominations. Because of the variety on offer, everyone has the opportunity to worship God in a way which is fulfilling to them e.g. some people hear an organ and immediately want to cover their ears, preferring a full-blooded brass band. Some can’t stand guitars, some love a set liturgy while others prefer a far looser style of service. Some like to clap, some don’t. Some clap like mad but refuse to raise their arms as some charismatic worshippers like to do. We’re different and possibly all the better for expressing those differences.
But……. I would love to see outside every denomination’s building a sign that said,
‘THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH’
and in much much smaller lettering underneath,
‘St Thomas’s Church of England branch’,
‘United reformed Church Branch’,
‘Salvation Army branch’,
‘Presbyterian branch’
etc
so people would understand that all denominations are simply branches of God’s Church.
21 How can Chinese people born before Jesus Christ be saved?
Why only the Chinese? Could not/should not the question be about all people born before Jesus?
Some facts are clear. No-one before Jesus was born can have called on his name. The New Testament can not have been read by people born before Jesus was born! God being a God of love and mercy will not judge those who died before Jesus for not observing the Words of Christ! They will be judged on what they have heard. We are judged according to the light we have received. Let me give an obvious example, please. Forgive me for making it a personal one.
My brother died at the age of 12. His knowledge of the Christian faith was at a very early stage. He was hardly experienced in knowing what faith was. Will God have judged him for what he didn’t know? That would be a very strange God-one lacking in understanding, compassion and love. On the other hand, as an adult my belief has had an opportunity to issue in works, demonstrating my faith. To judge us both by the same expectation would be unkind and God is most wonderfully kind.
Similarly, we must leave those born and who died before Christ to that wonderful grace and mercy of God who searches all heart. They will be judged with the same loving kindness which will be meted to us when we meet the Saviour.
But how blessed we are-who know Jesus!
22. Did Adam and Eve have navels?
Now, here’s a question to stop the world turning!
I do thank the questioner, though, for extricating me from the somewhat theological depth of some of the other questions!
I can’t think of any answer other than navels ‘occur’ when man and woman procreate. Adam and Eve came into existence not by ‘human’ method, and therefore there would seem to be no reason why they should have, what is, -to all intents and purposes, as far as I can see-a completely useless piece of anatomy which once we had been born has served its purpose.
I’m tempted to add, a little cynically, that knowing how self-centred people can get, at least Adam and Eve were given a head start by being unable to navel gaze!
23. Being a Christian does not protect from the knocks that life throws up, how do you come to terms with being unable to serve as you have done in the past and instead of helping being the one who needs help? Seeing jobs undone which would have been 'meat and drink' for me in the past leaves me asking, Why?
One can almost feel the frustration of this questioner!
Sometimes our Christian service is restricted by health or by any number of other reasons. In some way-and it is often very difficult to do and causes great heartache- we have to get used to it otherwise we can become excessively embittered. When that happens, even the limited service we can do, can become ineffective.
There are some basic facts.
1. ‘Circumstances’ happen! Particularly in the case of illness, they are not under our control.
2. Complaining about the unfairness of life isn’t going to make it, what we call, ‘fair’.
3. Circumstances need not mean an end of service. They can be doors to something different.
Let me refer to those circumstances of health which cause life changes to be made.
Doctors are fallible! We have four in our family and they are all lovely people, but none of them hesitate to refer patients to specialists if they think they can be helped further. So, despite how illness makes you feel, do ensure that you get the best possible medical advice. Ask for a referral. Search the Internet. Question your doctor.
Make sure that you get the aids which are available to you, and don’t try to cut down on prescribed medication. Your doctor will have spent 10 years or more training to ensure he/she knows what will help you.
Assuming you have done all that, yet you still feel physically unable to continue with the church activities you love, it behoves no one to glibly mouth words of empty platitudes. Those with ongoing illnesses or circumstances over which they have no control, need our prayers and our practical support.
(My mind gets sidetracked at this point as I think of Jacqueline du Pre, that marvellous cellist, who at the very height of the majestic playing was struck down with multiple sclerosis. How on earth you cope with not being able to play when you are of genius standard, I can’t imagine. But she turned her enormous talent into teaching others. Another example, of course, is Beethoven. Who could find words to describe his genius yet he went deaf, of all handicaps. It happens! And if the handicap is so severe that it is obvious that former activities cannot be resumed, then as long as one’s mental capabilities are not impaired, a search for alternative ways of ministry has to commence. Initially alternatives may seem second-best but there is no second-best ministry for God. All work for him is blessed and honoured by him.
In a previous question I referred to my brother’s death. When he died my mother was grief stricken and was practically destroyed. She suffered a total nervous breakdown and had electric shock treatment in the early days when it bordered on being barbaric. As she recovered, her previous public ministry-was impossible. She sought to find an alternative ministry and for years scanned the death notices of newspapers for people who have lost children and then she painstakingly wrote letters to the parents to give them comfort and hope. I suspect this was by far and away the greatest part of her life’s ministry.
A different form of ministry is not a second-best ministry. It is a reminder from God that we can be used by him no matter what the circumstances may be. Let no one, however, suggest that God brings about the circumstances to bring us to this alternative ministry. God has no part in hurt, misery, or bringing sickness upon us. To suggest such a thing is nothing short of cruel, and flies in the face of Scripture’s revelation of the nature of God.
Allow me to give practical example of an alternative ministry.
I believe this website can be of help and encouragement to people but it has to be publicized. Anybody with a computer could send out e-mail invitations to the hundreds of addresses I have. Not a very taxing, important thing to do? How many people might come to know the Lord by doing such a task? I repeat, no task is second best-or too small-if it is done for God.
All of that is not to overlook the hardship of coping with physical inability to do what one would dearly love to do. Pain can be a devastatingly difficult thing to endure especially when one is waiting to be involved in some form of enjoyable ministry. It is easy to decide that nothing can be done but in fact little is great. We cannot do ‘little’ for God if ‘little’ is all we can do. It is sacred and it is of immense value.
The hardest thing to convey to anyone labouring under such trying circumstances is to gently help them to come to the point of acceptance that what once was, may never be possible again. It is only when that acceptance is reached that the alternative ministry doors will be recognized. Please, questioner, do not think I am unaware of how dreadfully draining your situation is. But - allow me a ‘but’, please!- the years will pass all too quickly and they are years in which God can use you. It may not be in ways in which you have previously felt content or comfortable, but there is much you can do for God. Do you have a Christian friend who is able to be detached enough from you to do an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses and then, with you, to search for those alternative ways of ministry?
I’d like to think I’ll be hearing from you in the not too distant future telling me how, despite, the physical problems, you feel you are being used by God and you’re starting to be fulfilled again in your service.
24. Our Minister a couple of weeks ago was preaching and stated...."God chooses what we go through", " but we choose how we go through it". Does this mean that God chose for the marriage of out son to break down? or for my Mother to suffer the way she is..?? I don't believe this statement to be correct, but what do you say about it.
I could not say how strongly I disagree with such thinking.
God is a God of love and it is completely against his character and nature that he would bring about hurt in any way. Nor do I believe that it is his will that horrible things should happen. Those who suggest that such things must be within God’s will otherwise he would stop them, have not understood that God cannot give us the choice to love him or not and then intervene when men choose not to honour him.
I would want to say as emphatically as I can that we will find God in our troubled times but he has not caused them. He will be there to help us cope with the difficulty and to offer his grace and strength. That is his promise.
If anyone preaches otherwise, I do not need to recourse to a theology book. If anyone’s theology offends my common sense, it’s a sure sign that such preaching is something that I should reject.
One slight mitigating point could be that anyone preaching in this way may not have been as careful with their wording as they perhaps would have wished. We must at least try to be charitable!
25 How well do you relate to others or how do you think others see you?
I’m afraid this question stumps me because I’m not sure that anyone can answer it.
One can only assume how one relates to other people. Perhaps this is a question the interviewee should be able to throw open to those who know him/her. Answers by e mail, please!
26 What do you think happens to us when we die?
How all of us would wish to answer this categorically!
Is there life after death? If Jesus rose from the dead, then yes there is. If Lazarus was raised from the dead, then yes that is. If Jairus’ daughter and all others who we read about in the Bible were raised from the dead, then yes there is.
If we have a relationship with the living Christ, then yes there is. If Jesus is at least 2000 years old, (and of course we are told that Jesus was as always one with God from the very creation of the world,) why would anyone find it surprising that there is life after death? God is obviously more than capable of creating and preserving eternal life.
If the questioner is asking not if we continue to live after death, but how we live, that is a question no one can answer.
The only fact we do know is that we will be with Jesus and for those who love him, that would be more than enough.
But we can get a clue: if nothing sinful is going to be allowed entrance into heaven, it sounds a place that all right minded people would want to enter. What are we going to do there? I’m not sure I mind really if I enjoy doing the will of God here. I can’t think that I would enjoy it any less if all the sinful obstacles were removed.
27. What do you really think about holiness - getting beyond the hype and spin?
This is a question which would have a good theologian waxing for years on end.
I would simply go to the meaning of the word holy. The original Greek word is ‘hagios’ which means ‘set apart’. We tend to think of the Bible as holy and what it actually means is that it is a book that is set apart or uniquely about God and his will for us. But originally holy was not a religious word.
In our wordage those who embrace holiness are saying they are set apart for God.
We needlessly suffer wearing hair shirts when we think we must be faultless if we say we are practising holiness. No-one this side of heaven will be totally without fault. God looks at our motives and by his grace enables us, at all times, to be available to him irrespective of our imperfections. Holiness is seeking God’s will and doing it before we seek our own plans. It is living close enough to Jesus that it would be unthinkable to us to prefer our will to his.
Embracing holiness or being sanctified, is setting ourselves apart to serve God. As we do that, God will find in us willing subjects for his refining and continual empowering.